Dialogue with Tether CEO: Sleeps 5 hours every night, aiming for Tether to achieve 100 times rise.

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Guest: Paolo Ardoino, Tether CEO & Bitfinex CTO Host: Kevin Follonier Podcast Source: When Shift Happens Original Title: USDT Founder: Bitcoin, Gold, Stablecoin, & Tether, the Most Profitable Company in the World | EP 143 Broadcast Date: October 16, 2025 Summary: Paolo Ardoino, CEO of Tether (CEO) and CTO of Bitfinex (CTO), shared how he built one of the most profitable companies in the world—each employee generates an average profit of about 100 million dollars. Tether launched USDT, the most widely used stablecoin (Stablecoin) globally, providing financial support to around 3 billion people who cannot access banking services, especially in countries facing extreme inflation and financial crises. In the context of the increasingly unstable global economy, Paolo founded a company dedicated to bringing stability through 'democratizing finance,' achieving extraordinary success. Last year, Tether's revenue reached 13.7 billion dollars.

Exciting viewpoint summary

I usually sleep at least 5 hours a night. But the problem is that my sleep is fragmented because I always keep notifications on, and I wake up every hour to check notifications before going back to sleep.

My hometown is a small village with only 600 people, so there are limited entertainment activities. I started learning programming at the age of 8, and this passion has continued through my university years and until now.

I personally have almost no hobbies. In fact, my only hobby is thinking about how to fulfill my mission and bring stability to the world every day.

The existence of USDT is precisely to provide financial stability for those in emerging markets facing extreme economic instability.

Tether is not just a stablecoin company, but a stability company. This is precisely the mission of Tether, and the true meaning of a “stability company”—a company with the ultimate goal of social stability.

What we need to do is to democratize access to finance and technology, allowing more people to participate directly through peer-to-peer technology and decentralized finance.

Tether is a "once-in-a-century company; unlike other companies that try to create closed ecosystems, Tether's platform is open to the whole world, which is a completely different business model and the key to our success.

Everyone should have their own mission, regardless of size, as long as you are happy.

People often use art to express emotions and thoughts, and I realized that my way of expression is through programming. I can create my own world and invite people into it through programming.

Stablecoins are essentially the ultimate social network.

We hope to use this financing (200 billion) to show the world that Tether's mission goes far beyond this, and our goal is to achieve a 100-fold growth. Tether has the capital, philosophy, and technological innovation to do anything we want.

If you create a product that can solve real-world problems, it has the potential to truly change the world.

Football is a global sport that can reach people from all walks of life, regardless of wealth. Therefore, investing in football clubs is a simple way to connect with users worldwide. We hold a 10% stake in the Italian Serie A club Juventus.

The motivation to keep striving

Kevin Follonier: Many of my guests have one thing in common, which is that they have experienced something in their lives that has created a sense of imbalance in their hearts. So, is Tether's mission today related to something you were missing when you were younger? Paolo Ardoino: I consider myself very fortunate. Although my family was not wealthy, I learned the most important lesson from my family - to work hard. I remember my grandparents, who have passed away but ran a small farm in Italy. They focused on producing high-quality olive oil and tomatoes, paying great attention to detail. Whether it was tomatoes, sage, rosemary, or asparagus, they pursued excellence, and this passion carried through their lives. My grandfather would wake up at five in the morning, take a nap at one in the afternoon, and then continue working in the evening. This simple yet fulfilling life kept him happy. Although he only had a primary school education, he was excellent in mathematics. My parents are also diligent role models. My mother is a kindergarten teacher, and my father was an ordinary employee who worked at the national energy company in Italy and later retired in Israel. They are still alive, and I feel very lucky for that. After work, they would take us to exercise and then return to the farm to help out. You could say that from morning till night, our lives revolved around getting up, working hard, and completing tasks. But everything was filled with passion. I have never heard them complain, because for them, this is what mission is about. Everyone should have their own mission, big or small, as long as it brings happiness. So when someone says to me, “Oh, you work so hard,” I say no, the meaning I see in hard work goes far beyond that, I am definitely not just working hard. My schedule is also quite special; I usually sleep at least 5 hours every night. But the problem is my sleep is fragmented because I always keep notifications on, and I wake up every hour to check notifications and then go back to sleep. Kevin Follonier: You've been doing this for 11 years, sleeping 5 hours a night and waking up every hour? Do you take naps during the day? Paolo Ardoino: No. If I nap during the day, I feel dizzy. So I never take naps.

Started programming at 8 years old Kevin Follonier: You started programming at 8 years old? What was that like? Paolo Ardoino: My father worked for the Italian National Energy Company. In the early 90s, public companies in Italy began introducing computers to improve efficiency and modernize. As we all know, the Italian bureaucracy is very complex, and many tasks are time-consuming, so the introduction of computers was significant for improving work efficiency. My father was passionate about these new technologies. I remember when I was 7, he brought home a computer and told me it was very expensive, costing the equivalent of two months' salary. Although I didn't fully grasp the concept of two months' salary at the time, he told me the computer was very costly and to be careful with it so as not to break it. As the only child in the family, I was naturally very curious about this computer. We had floppy disks to play games, but due to financial reasons, we couldn't afford many games. Plus, in Italy in 1991, it was also difficult to find game resources. My hometown is a small village with only 600 people, so entertainment options were limited. Over time, I gradually grew bored with the existing games and came up with the idea of making my own games. I asked my father if he could buy me a book on how to program and make games. He replied, “Well, Paolo, I can buy it, but this book costs 60,000 lira.” At that time, Italy was still using lira as currency. He asked me, “Are you sure you want to buy this book? Because it's expensive.” I said, “I want to learn.” Then he brought the book home, and I started learning programming, and this passion has continued through my university years and up to now.

The infinite possibilities of programming Kevin Follonier: You once mentioned that programming is a unique form of expression, different from other art forms, capable of unleashing human imagination and allowing us to create entirely new worlds full of infinite possibilities. Can you elaborate on your views? Paolo Ardoino: Of course. To be honest, I haven't excelled in traditional art forms. Although I used to be a decent guitarist, I haven't played in years. And in other artistic fields, I would say I have no talent whatsoever. For instance, in school art classes, whether it was technical design or other hands-on projects, my work always appeared chaotic. I remember when I painted, my arm would wave excessively, and the pencil would randomly move across the canvas, resulting in outcomes that were always unsatisfactory. I couldn't color, let alone sing; I could say I couldn't even manage the most basic forms of artistic expression. But people usually use art to express emotions and thoughts, and I realized that my way of expression is through programming. I can create my own world and invite people into it through programming.

What is a stablecoin & why are stablecoins so important Kevin Follonier: You create stablecoins through programming. What is a stablecoin? How would you explain it to a mother? Paolo Ardoino: Simply put, a stablecoin is a digital currency, similar to the digital balance you see in your bank account. But the difference is that stablecoins use blockchain technology for transfers rather than relying on the banking system. You can think of it as a “digital dollar” that can circulate freely around the world like cash. Blockchain is a decentralized technology, akin to a large database without borders, with its servers distributed across the globe rather than concentrated in a single bank or institution. We use the best form of database — a decentralized database — to move dollars. Kevin Follonier: Why are stablecoins so important in our world? Paolo Ardoino: The significance of stablecoins lies in their ability to provide solutions for billions of people worldwide who lack financial services. These individuals often live in countries with high inflation rates, such as Europe, where the inflation rate is between 30% and 34%, Turkey at 50%, Nigeria even higher, and Argentina sometimes exceeding 200%. In these countries, high inflation causes local currencies to depreciate rapidly, severely impacting people's purchasing power. Now, in 2025, everyone is interested in stablecoins. In developed countries like the United States and Europe, the efficiency of the financial system is already very high; you may have bank accounts, credit cards, and payment tools like Cash App or PayPal, with almost no barriers to daily transfers. But in some developing countries, the efficiency of the financial system may only be around 5%, and many people can't even open bank accounts. Stablecoins, through blockchain technology, can increase financial efficiency in these regions to 60% or 70%. For people living in remote villages in Africa, this change is enormous, allowing them to participate in the global economy and bringing them more opportunities. The internet has begun to achieve this connectivity; in fact, the internet is a way to invite people into the global context, but without financial services, the internet is meaningless. I believe stablecoins are, in this sense, the ultimate social network because the currency of social networks, in my view, represents the ultimate social network as it involves interpersonal interactions, peer-to-peer interactions, and it inherently contains value and the information you want to transfer.

Tether's mission & to become a stable company Kevin Follonier: So what is your mission? Paolo Ardoino: My mission is to bring stability to the world. In a world that is gradually becoming more unstable and chaotic, I believe stability is particularly important. This may sound a bit strange, but Tether's success is actually closely related to the exacerbation of many global problems. If the financial system is fair, resources are accessible, and things are functioning properly, then there would be no need for USDT to exist. The existence of USDT is precisely to provide financial stability to those in emerging markets who face extreme economic instability. As a developer, I believe we are shaping Tether into a leader in technology, not just in finance but also in telecommunications, social media, and other industries. Our goal is to make these industries more open and accessible through decentralized technology, just like we have done in the dollar and financial sector; this is the core mission of Tether. It is worth mentioning that most of the profits we earn are not distributed to shareholders; about 95% of the profits remain within the company, invested in new things and new ideas to support our mission. Personally, I have very few hobbies. In fact, my only hobby is thinking every day about how to achieve this mission. I am very obsessed with this issue; I am the kind of person who gets immersed in a field, and it basically takes up my entire life. Kevin Follonier: You mentioned in Docker Times that as the global situation becomes increasingly unstable, Tether will continue to invest a portion of its profits into safe assets like Bitcoin, gold, and land. So, what is a stable company? Paolo Ardoino: I often think about what a true “stable company” is. Once, a journalist asked me how to define Tether in a few words; he tried to say that Tether is a stablecoin company. My response was that Tether is not just a stablecoin company, but a stable company. In my view, the accessibility of technology and finance is key to social stability. If people can easily access technology and financial services, they will have less incentive to create chaos and instability. Many times, the root of social unrest lies in people's dissatisfaction, which often stems from extremely difficult living conditions. Of course, social instability has other causes, but overall, I believe global stability is closely related to the vast disparities between countries and regions. Over the past 20 to 30 years, while technology has attempted to close these gaps, it has actually exacerbated inequality. The same situation occurs in the financial sector—about half of the global population cannot access financial services reliably, and they often don't even have the opportunity to open a bank account. This is not because they are untrustworthy, but because their level of poverty makes them uninteresting to banks. This phenomenon is particularly evident in some African or Central American countries, leading to severe impacts on stability in these areas, as the distribution of technological and financial resources is completely biased towards a small wealthy elite. What we need to do is democratize access to finance and technology, allowing more people to participate directly through peer-to-peer technology and decentralized finance. I believe that when people's lives, families, communities, and countries become more stable, they will have less motivation to create chaos. This is precisely the mission of Tether, and the true meaning of a “stable company”—a company with the ultimate goal of social stability. We have proven that such a company can be built. Moreover, it is gratifying that the more we strive in this direction, the stronger the company's profitability will be. This is also why I define Tether as a “once-in-a-century company.” This is not a boast; it is because Tether's uniqueness lies in the fact that the more it promotes open source, openness, and decentralization, the more it can attract a broader user base. These users use the tools provided by Tether to achieve financial freedom and freedom of expression, and the more widespread this process is, the more value the company's data can create. Unlike other companies that attempt to build closed ecosystems, Tether's platform is open to the entire world; this is a completely different business model and is key to our success.

Tether: The company with the highest profit per employee globally Kevin Follonier: You mentioned that Tether is one of the best companies in the world, with a profit margin of up to 99%. How did you build a company that averages about 100 million dollars in profit per employee each year? Have you thought deeply about this question? Paolo Ardoino: Frankly, I haven't given much thought to such data. We always focus on efficiency optimization; whenever we do something, I ask myself: why are we doing it this way? Is there a better way? How can we further improve efficiency? Two years ago, Tether's team size was only 40 people, but with the expansion of our business, our current staff has grown to between 250 to 300 people, including a large number of developers, as we are expanding into new fields like artificial intelligence. However, the team responsible for core stablecoin management remains at around 100 people. Of course, the current high-interest-rate environment has greatly helped our profitability. Before 2022, global interest rates were relatively low, and this change was difficult to predict. Additionally, the impact of the pandemic was also unexpected; these factors collectively drove our profit growth. However, we believe that by continuously exploring new business areas, we can help maintain a high level of profitability in the long term. Optimizing efficiency and seizing opportunities are the keys to our success.

Why raise 20 billion dollars? Kevin Follonier: You recently announced that you are considering raising $20 billion and valuing the company at $500 billion. If this funding were to materialize tomorrow, how do you plan to use it? Paolo Ardoino: Last year we achieved a profit of $13.7 billion, and this year's performance is expected to be similar. But I want to emphasize that our purpose in raising funds is not just to make money, but to convey an important message. Just like the Joker said in Batman: “It's not about money, it's about sending a message.” We want to show the world through this fundraising that Tether's mission goes far beyond that, and our goal is to achieve 100 times growth. Once, in a public setting, I mentioned that I am a die-hard fan of Peter Thiel and that I am reading his book “Zero to One.” However, it's no longer an era where startups can make huge profits simply through data growth. I would prefer to say that our goal is to move from our current foundation to the stage of “Zero to 100.” I have vividly referred to it as “0.25” because we are just getting started. The reason I say this is that it's not about how much money we've made, but about the potential we believe needs to be harnessed to express our view on this opportunity. I define Tether as a once-in-a-century opportunity because I believe every company needs three things: philosophy, direction, and capital. First, you need to have a philosophy or belief that clearly defines what kind of company you want to become; second, you need to have the ability to innovate, whether in technology or other areas; third, you need to have capital. Most companies possess only one or two of these three elements. You can be a large-scale innovator with the right philosophy, but without funding, you need to raise capital and seek venture capital firms. However, the incentive mechanism for venture capital firms is to make more money than they invested in you, which can deviate from your original project, philosophy, and ideas. I believe that in this situation, Tether has the capital, philosophy, and technological innovation to do anything we want. Therefore, the message we convey is that we have a lot more to show, we want to grow significantly, and our vision is incredible. We hope to have partners join our company to help us realize this unique and powerful vision; we do not want to mess this up. Why did Tether invest in @Plasma? Kevin Follonier: Tether recently invested in a company called Plasma, whose founder Paul has previously participated in our podcast and helped us build this platform. So, why is Plasma so important that Tether decided to invest in them? Paolo Ardoino: I believe that Tether's USDT is not just a digital currency; it is also an important component of blockchain technology. Stablecoins are essentially a digitized dollar based on blockchain technology. However, there have been some deviations in the development direction of blockchain technology over the past few years. Many developers are more focused on quickly launching hype-driven blockchain projects, like meme coins such as Dogecoin. While this approach may be effective in the short term, it does not truly advance the long-term development of the industry. Nevertheless, such projects have indeed made some teams money. The success of USDT proves one fact: if you create a product that can solve real problems, it has the potential to truly change the world. Therefore, I believe that blockchain based on stablecoins or focused on a specific purpose can make stablecoin transfers very inexpensive and easy to use. For example, if you have stablecoins on Ethereum now, you still need to buy ETH as gas to transfer USDT; this user experience needs improvement. I think that despite the blockchain industry having developed for many years, the quality of user experience is still very low because we have focused on the wrong things, only paying attention to our own “ecosystem,” which consists mainly of geeks and those who have time to learn new things. However, this approach does not apply to most ordinary people. This is also why USDT is so popular globally, as USDT does not cater to those looking to speculate. An interesting statistic shows that 67% of USDT transactions are merely for transferring funds, while only 10% to 20% of transactions involving other stablecoins are related to transferring other assets. This indicates that most users of USDT are simply looking for a stable value of 1 dollar. In contrast, 80% of users of other stablecoins are simultaneously transferring other assets, meaning they are more inclined to trade assets in the DeFi space. Therefore, I would prefer USDT to serve the tens of millions of ordinary users living in Africa rather than just meet the needs of 10,000 bankers in New York. Why does Tether own 10% of Juventus Football Club? Kevin Follonier: Tether recently invested in Juventus Football Club and holds about 10% of the shares. This raises the question of why a company focused on stablecoins would choose to invest in a football club. Paolo Ardoino: First of all, both Giancarlo and I are loyal fans of Juventus. Giancarlo is from the Piedmont region of Italy, and Juventus is the representative team of this land. I grew up near Genoa, about 80 to 100 kilometers from Turin. Many people from our hometown go to Piedmont for vacation, so Juventus has a significant influence. My father is a fan of Juventus, and I inherited his preference, as did Giancarlo. Another reason is that we believe the football industry in Italy needs modernization. In Italy, football clubs are often used by entrepreneurs as tools of power; they usually own both media and clubs and engage in political activities through these resources. In contrast, we see investments in the football industry from countries like Saudi Arabia, as well as clubs like Chelsea, Manchester United, and Paris Saint-Germain, which already have hundreds of millions of fans worldwide. Football is a global sport that can reach people from all walks of life, regardless of wealth. Therefore, investing in football clubs is a simple way to connect with global users. We hope that Italian football clubs can establish closer ties with fans, promote positive values, and achieve profitability through modern management models. The success of a club should be based on the team's strength, match results, and interaction with fans. However, this model has not yet been truly realized in many clubs in Italy. Through our investment in Juventus, we hope to drive a transformation in the Italian football industry, making Juventus more international and forward-looking.